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      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
     

    Hey everyone,

    I got a load of new parts yesterday consisting of:

    E6600
    2 x 2gb of XMS2
    X1900XT 512mb running ATI 8.7 Driver
    Creative Audigy 2 ZS

    Old parts:
    500w Antec Phantom PSU
    200gb WD HD
    DVD drive

    When it comes to play COD4, running at 800 x 600 with all details off/low. I struggle to see +25fps (it's like watching a slideshow). I use to get +60fps running an old 128mb 6800 (1gb of ram and a xp3000). Why is the new system slower than my old one?

    I really cant figure out why I'm getting such crap FPS in COD4, in comparison I can play HL2: Episode 2 without any fuss really, although I can't help but think that could be better too.

    Things I've tried doing to rectify the problem are:
    -Flashed to latest Motherboard BIOS
    -Reinstalled Gfx Drivers
    -Swapped the memory around
    -Reinstalled DirectX
    -Overclocked Cpu to 3.06ghz an mem to 850mhz
    -Setting Sound EQ to low quality in cod4

    If anybody has any idea why this is happening or any solutions, it'd be really greatful. (I've googled for answers but no luck)

    Here's a 'Can you run it screenshot' for cod4:

    Everything seems to be in order there.

    So I tried a 3dmark06 test, here are the results:

    Check out how my score is literally half of what it should be!!! :(
    My memory is showing as 3gb too (when I have 4gb)

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
     

    This is going to sound crazy - but worth a try. Drop down to 2GB of system memory.

    Also - does your card require power plugging into it? I've seen this sort of performance from cards that haven't got external power plugged in.

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 2nd 2008
     

    The fact that your memory is showing up as 3GB instead of 4GB is odd. IIRC a lot of older boards with 32bit CPU's can't handle more than 3GB or 3.5GB ram, but your core 2 is 64bit through and through...

    I'm going to have to agree with Spode - I think your ram might be broked.

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     

    CB - But he's running Windows XP, which is 32-Bit. So 3-3.5GB is probably what it will detect. On top of that, there are limitations as to what a single program can allocate and detect. So you want to see what it says on the Windows System Properties screen and trust nothing else.

    I'm not suggesting his RAM is borked, but I think it's worth trying with just 2GB, as some odd things might be happening :)

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      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     

    I just reinstalled windows an thought I'd get a screenie up of what CPUz is finding (4gb?) Once the service pack has finished installing, ill give COD4 another shot an see if I can get reasonable playability.

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     

    The 3-3.5GB limit was a physical one imposed by hardware issues, iirc - and didn't affect machines with registered ram.

    I don't think 32bit OS's have the same limitation - I *think* they're limited to 4GB of addressable space - but I just don't know for sure!

    Maybe a 64bit linux (live CD?) install running some benchmarks might help work out if the memory is at fault...

    If it's a problem with XP getting it's knickers in a twist over memory allocation, then it might be time to switch to 64bit XP or (boo! hiss!) 64bit Vista...

    I want to upgrade my machine with more ram soon, since photoshop slows down on my 10 megapixel images sometimes - another 2-4GB ram would be nice, methinks. So I'm actually thinking of swapping to Vista...

    I promised myself I'd never do that, but maybe an nlite enhanced version of vista will be not rubbish. Maybe.

    ^o

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      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     

    Maybe it is time to go to Vista :(?

    I just ran a 3dmark03 test. With 4gb and with 2gb. I got 16,980 with 4gb and 16,955 with 2gb. So really, there is no difference in performance there.

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      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     

    Just ran Call of Duty 4 again, still not getting anything above 25 frames per sec with only 2gb of ram. Really stuck for ideas?!

    Just installing Half Life 2 Lost Coast to see if it is just a problem with COD4 that can't be helped.

    This may be the wrong place to be asking, but I don't really want to have the dissatification of paying 60 pounds for Vista. If anyone has got any pointers, it'd be appreciated. (it may even resolve my problems) :)

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 3rd 2008
     

    Do you have a spare HDD lying around? I used to have real trouble with nVidia drivers not allowing me to play video files, and had to swap back to older drivers - you could try installing a fresh copy of windoze on a spare HDD (anything with more than about 4GB would do as a testbed) and installing the oldest drivers you can get your hands on for every piece of hardware you have. I suggest a fresh windows install because I had trouble rolling back my nVidia drivers (they left some of the newer files in place and I ended up with more trouble than I started with) so a fresh install might be the only way to know if it's a driver issue. It might just be you have a clash between two pieces of hardware (weird interrupt issues that everyone knew how to fix 10 years ago are still possible, but would be much less likely and if they do happen, might be harder to fix, depending on your bios...)

    Anyhow, it's a plan of attack. Dunno how helpful it might be, but it's gotta be worth a try, if for no other reason than to eliminate drivers as the issue...

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      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2008
     

    Thanks for all the help so far,

    Done a clean install of XP yesterday and it made no difference to anything graphically intensive. Call Of Duty/3dmark still gave poor performance which was a real let down after whiping alot of stuff off.

    I'm beginning to think that it could be a memory issue, when I have the 2 x 2gb sticks in and check in the BIOS. Under hardware information it only says that 3009mb is installed, despite in cpu-z it says 4gb, I would of thought that if anywhere the BIOS would be correct. I'm stuck in a catch 22 now, I don't want to spend anymore money until I know it's definitely going to be sorted, so I'm reluctant to buy Vista incase it makes no difference at all. :( Unhappy days.

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2008
     

    That doesn't sound happy - perhaps try each stick independetly.

    The 3-3.5GB limit was a physical one imposed by hardware issues, iirc - and didn't affect machines with registered ram.

    I don't think 32bit OS's have the same limitation - I *think* they're limited to 4GB of addressable space - but I just don't know for sure!

    4GB is the overall memory allocation. This includes the frame buffer in your graphics card, memory in your sound card etc. And I don't think registered memory makes any difference to this limitation. There is also a 2GB limitation per program, which can be changed by booting Windows with /3gb switch.

    I don't think that's the issue here.

    Are you using 4x1GB sticks, or two 2GB?

    •  
      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2008
     

    two 2gb sticks.

    •  
      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2008
     

    Did you test them both when you did your 2GB test?

    •  
      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2008
     

    I'll test each 2gb stick independantly tonight when I get in from work.

    Looking over my 3dmark06 Score again of: 4863 and comparing it to a few scores on Google. There appears to be nothing wrong. The majority of x1900xt are getting between 4200 and 5200 points in 3dmark06 which begs the question why am I having such ball ache playing Call of Duty if my graphics card isn't at fault. Half Life 2 seems to play faultlessly aswell.

    Maybe I should just stop playing COD4, although I did buy this setup so I could play specifically that game. :( Bad times.

    •  
      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2008
     

    Any patches/updates for COD4?

    Also, are you running a dual monitor setup?

    •  
      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2008
     

    1.7, but I updated to that as soon as I installed the game. Not dual monitor and I even tried 7.6 drivers last nigth which are months old. Still no luck, so I guess it's time I packed in gaming, military life starts in a few weeks so it's probably for the best. :(

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2008
     

    How frustrating...

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 12th 2008
     

    I just stuck 2 2GB OCZ sticks of DDR2 800 in my PC. I should have tested the speed of the thing before taking the generic 2x1GB sticks out...

    Anyhow, I'm getting 3.5GB showing up in windoze. I guess that 3.5GB limit *does* apply to 32bit XP. I'll try running a live CD later and see what that says.

    Scopse - have you tried running benchmarks off a live CD? A memory test on both platforms might be helpful...

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2008
     

    I guess that 3.5GB limit *does* apply to 32bit XP

    I guess my earlier post didn't say that strongly enough. But yes - it's 4GB, minus your graphics memory and other stuff - so it often smaller than that.

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2008
     

    Yuh-huh, you did, but there was some fuzziness in my mind as to where the 3-3.5GB limit was being imposed - by hardware (on 32bit machines, at least) or in software.

    3.5GB is an odd limit for an OS to have. 4GB makes more sense to me...

    • CommentAuthorBeanz
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2008 edited
     

    I would have to say that it's the hardware limiting it.

    4GB = 2^32 bytes (since 1GB = (2^10)^3 bytes). Therefore the total amount of memory in the system that can be used is limited to 4GB; thus RAM limit = 4GB - graphics and other memory.

    64Bit systems should therefore have a hardware limit of 16 Exabytes of memory; but since no-one here could probably affod that much RAM I don't think that's going to be a problem.

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 13th 2008
     

    Beanz - I have an Athlon 64. My memory limitations aren't hardware...

    And Scopse has a Core2....

    We're both on 64 bit systems, with 32bit OS's.

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      CommentAuthorScopse
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2008
     

    Please correct me if I'm wrong, if XP is limited to 3.5gb and then you minus whatever the Gfx card has (mine is 512mb) then I should have have 3.00gb? (out of the 4gb thats physically installed)

    this is what I get, so I assume it's all fine and dandy...

    in cpu-z

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2008
     

    Scopse - the only time your graphics card takes memory away from the main system is when the graphics are on the motherboard. Yours aren't, so you should be seeing the same 3.5GB that I do. Even if your graphics were taking 512MB, you should still see 3.5GB in windows, because the 512MB your graphics card took would be the same 512MB that windows couldn't see anyway (in theory, in practice it depends on the way the memory is mapped and addressed by your northbridge. I don't have a northbridge, though - so maybe that's why I'm seeing 3.5GB and you're seeing less - *maybe*... I doubt it, but maybe... Maybe XP pro sees more than XP home?)

    What does your post screen say about the amount of RAM you have? Have you tried going into your BIOS and disabling quick post (so it tests your ram every time you boot)? I would seriously consider downloading a 64bit live CD at this point, because 2.93GB of ram is a very, very weird amount of ram to have - it's not a "binary" number (a power of 2, I mean)... But then, neither is my 3.5GB.

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      CommentAuthorcoyote
    • CommentTimeAug 17th 2008
     

    This is a bit odd? I have 4 Gigs installed on an AMD rig and that only shows exactly 3Gigs. From what I've read 3 is the the norm when 32 bit Windows is used, I guess it may be something to do with the northbridge, or do CPUs have some kind of memory controller in them that effects it?

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2008
     

    CB - I don't think you've understood what Beanz and I are saying, and it's making for a confusing thread!

    4GB is the overall limitation to memory allocation - for system memory, graphics memory - anything that has memory. So if you have a 512MB graphics card, you can only access 3.5GB of the system memory. That's why it shows 3.5GB.

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2008
     

    Doesn't explain why Scopse has just under 3GB of ram available, though...

    He doesn't have 3GB, he has just under 3GB... And since he has a 512MB graphics card, he should be seeing 3.5GB, not 2.93GB...

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      CommentAuthorSpode
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2008
     

    Indeed. That is odd.

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      CommentAuthorClubBarf
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2008
     

    Sorry for confusing things over the memory allocation - I didn't know windows only has 4GB for everything. I guess that's what comes of working with machines that have no framebuffer at all (headless linux/BSD boxes, and Solaris machines - which have been 64bit for about a decade...)

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      CommentAuthorcoyote
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2008
     

    A confusing thread it may be, but there's nothing like confusion to clear one's thoughts to resolve the muddle and learn just a little more useful information. Now that is always beneficial.
    2.93Gb, 3.00Gb, or 3.5Gb. I have a feeling Windows isn't capable of reporting the exact amount of RAM accurately. Indeed, I have had some strange readings from CPU-Z in the past, I suspect it's because it's still a Windows based programme.
    Perhaps there's a better way of calculating real RAM totals. Then again, does it really matter that much?

 
Copyright Andrew Miller (Spode), 2008